Tough Old Man,
you've been doing this for 30+ yrs.
I remember reading one of your posts a while back
that you've never done PCT, you taper off and call it good.
Does this work ok for ya?
Do your T levels get back to a normal level?
It seems everytime i've done some PCT protocol,
It actually seems worse than if i did nothing at all.
My balls never shrink to the size of raisins as some claim.
Everytime i use anything that stimulates or mimics LH,
the next day it's like my package was dipped in 33 deg. water,small,lifeless,
libido is history.
It seems i'm in better shape just letting things come back naturally.
Is all this PCT nonsense overrated?

I'll get a few words in before TOM gets here , but I have been taking clomid for the past few weeks because I was feeling shut down from a cycle I did in the spring. I felt fine for a while, but right at the beginning of this year I felt out of it and had some testicular atrophy. clomid's been working though. also taking maca and zinc. one thing I will say is that everyone responds differently to these drugs and it becomes a matter of trial and error to figure out what personally works best for yourself. think about guys that love dbol and hate drol and vice versa as an example. tapering off as pct isn't a bad idea though. a lot of old school guys stick with it. I think if you were to go that route, then one thing you might want to take advantage of is igf-1 during the tapering off.

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"The mind always fails first, not the body. The secret is to make your mind work for you, not against you." -Arnold

Thanks Swacked,
Just read on another board that leydig cells only comprise about 10% of testicle volume,
so the fact balls don't shrink much is no sign of the leydig cells functioning or not.
That i just learned today..
I might throw some Nolva at it,since i have some layin around,
i'm out of torem..
might get T level checked in a few weeks by Online blood testing lab tests, STD testing blood tests lab test by Private MD
perhaps.
some people take PCT so serious,but after reading Tom's protocol.
I'm wondering anymore.
gear is close to out of my sytem 100%, guess i'll know in a week or so how crappy i feel

interesting, guess that makes two of us that learned something new.

and I also forgot to add that hcg use throughout your cycle will obviously make recovery much easier. I'm not sure if TOM uses hcg at all, but I thought I'd just throw that out there as well.

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"The mind always fails first, not the body. The secret is to make your mind work for you, not against you." -Arnold

Interesting discussion guys, I have been on test for 8 months (blast-cruise). now on week 4 of tapering down. A little less than 1/2 amp EOD. So about 300mg/w. I still feel awsome as i am coming back from getting very sick for 3 weeks. Anyway I will be coming off completely without pct soon all the while going balls to the wall in the gym and eating and resting. I will not be suprised if I am not feeling 100% for a couple weeks. I will also be taking Symplex M and Orchic PMG from Standard Process. These two products are designed to support the body on a cellular level and are derived from a combination of plant and animal extracts.

__________________
....just a man and his will to survive....

have you been using any hcg or clomid or nolva during these 8 months?

__________________
"The mind always fails first, not the body. The secret is to make your mind work for you, not against you." -Arnold

No nothing. the only sides are increased interest in woman and acne. Oh I have been taking the natural products I mentioned before the whole time at a moderate dose and will increase that dose for pct.

__________________
....just a man and his will to survive....

any significant testicular atrophy to take note of?

__________________
"The mind always fails first, not the body. The secret is to make your mind work for you, not against you." -Arnold

No, actually not sure if any. kinda weird, but I really trust the Orchic PMG. It is difficult to explain but in a nut shell it it acts on the cellular level to preserve the organ it is meant for, in this case testicles. I believe it is made from bull testices and some plant parts too.

Also I have to say I am a little nervous about coming off without PCT so at my docter visit tomorrow I will ask him about it.

__________________
....just a man and his will to survive....

I've heard good things about PMG. I'll have to read up on it a bit more.

__________________
"The mind always fails first, not the body. The secret is to make your mind work for you, not against you." -Arnold